We met the versatile Charley Langer a while back on Twitter. We connected with the Northern California based saxophonist to learn more about him and his passion for music. Charley’s album Never the Same is currently available through his site, iTunes, Amazon
We always feel fortunate when we get to talk with great musicians and Charley is no exception. He’s a class act all the way and his music is a true reflection of his dedication and spirit.
General
How and when did you get started in music?
My grandmother started teaching me piano when I was in the fourth grade. I loved music, but wasn’t particularly excited about playing the piano. When I was in the fifth grade, my parents bought me an alto saxophone. I still remember the feel and smell of it. I slept with it under my bed so I could reach down and touch the case.
Why music, what is it about music?
I think people tend to be drawn toward what they are good at. On the other hand, I was drawn to music even before I knew I had any ability in that area. I made drums out of my mom’s Tupperware and guitars out of shoe boxes and rubber bands.
Who are your musical influences?
My approach to the saxophone is definitely rooted in both classical and jazz. My most influential teachers were Vincent Gnojek and Douglas Masek. I listened to a lot of “legit” (classical) players like Harvey Pittel and Donald Sinta, as well as jazz guys like Paul Desmond, Phil Woods, and Richie Cole. I didn’t really get interested in more popular saxophone styles until later. When it comes to “smooth jazz”, it’s hard to play that style without being influenced by David Sanborn and Grover Washington, Jr. I also like the jazz-fusion sounds of the Yellowjackets, Dave Weckl Band, and Steps Ahead.
What are you listening to now?
Steps Ahead: Live In Tokyo (1986), featuring Mike Stern, Michael Brecker, Michael Mainieri, Jr., and Steve Smith.
Songwriting
Can you walk us through your songwriting process?
The process really varies from song to song. Sometimes I start with a rhythmic idea, or a melodic fragment, a chord progression, or even a title. Then I ask myself, “What does that suggest?” I rework and rewrite a lot. The song may end up with very little resemblance to what I started with.
I’ve had people ask me, “What’s it like to create something out of nothing?” I really don’t look at songwriting that way because it’s too intimidating. I look at it as a sculptor might look at a block of wood. There’s a song somewhere in that “piece of wood”, and I just keep “whittling away” at it. The key to my creativity is to just start.
Do you ever start with a melody on the saxophone first?
I often start with a melody. However, I usually write at night. For that reason, I almost always start on an electronic instrument that I can listen to in my headphones, like a keyboard, a wind synth, or a drum loop. It helps keeps the peace in my home!
You mentioned that your album Never The Same was a long-distance project and that you never even met Mark Morris who you co-wrote four songs with. How did you work around the distance as you were writing together?
Mark is my hero. He rescued a few of my songs that I thought were destined for the trash can. I met Mark on an internet music forum, and he suggested collaborating. At first, I just played on some of his tunes. Then I asked him to help set the groove for my scratch tracks on “City Lights”. He not only got it grooving, but he sent me back that cool guitar counter-melody on the bridge. Mark and I both use the same recording software, so we send audio tracks to each other over the internet.
Did you set time aside to write or does it just happen whenever you’re in the mood?
Both. Sometimes an idea just hits me, and sometimes I have to discipline myself to just do it.
Since the saxophone is a lead instrument, do you ever find it difficult to find a balance in a song as a saxophonist? For example, how do you decide when to double a melody with a piano or guitar and when to go solo?
I make a lot of my decisions based on my musical influences. For instance, I listened to Richie Cole a lot growing up, and I loved the sound of the electric guitar doubling the sax down an octave. So, when we wrote “Upside Down”, which is more of a straight-ahead tune, it seemed natural to use that sound. When we wrote “Remember When”, which intentionally had a bit of Yellowjackets flavor, I doubled and harmonized the sax with a synth, which is a sound I picked up from them.
What do you find challenging about writing for the saxophone?
I think it’s cool that singers can accompany themselves with a guitar or piano while they write. It’s kind of hard to do that with a sax!
Are you conscious of what songs are in what keys as you write?
To some degree, each note on the saxophone has a different tone color to my ear. I think I tend to gravitate toward keys that let me emphasize the tone color I want to hear.
Any plans or desire to work with vocalists?
While I know it’s kind of a popular thing for smooth jazz artists to include some songs on their album that feature vocals, I’m not sure I will ever do that. Put me down as a definite maybe! On the other hand, I often get the chance to do recording sessions for vocalists and play with bands that feature vocalists, and I do enjoy that.
Recording Never the Same
Where did you record Never the Same and how did it work having never even met some of the musicians you worked with? Did the distance pose any challenges since you couldn’t be in the room?
I recorded the saxophones, wind synths, and some of the keyboards at my home studio. Everything else was recorded elsewhere. I frankly don’t know where every track was recorded. From a musician’s point of view, it’s not an ideal way to work. However, it makes certain things affordable that otherwise would have been out of my reach.
As to how this was done, I sent Ron (Wikso) the charts and scratch tracks that I (and, later, Mark and I) had recorded at home. (“Scratch tracks” are temporary tracks recorded during preproduction to give the musicians something to play along with.) Ron pretty much did the rest. He hired musicians, ran sessions, mixed the recorded tracks, and sat in with the engineer during mastering. He sent stuff for me to listen to and give approval on. It was a lot of “back and forth”.
At first, Ron was recording most of the backing musicians at his studio. Then things became more “locationally fragmented” for a number of reasons: Ron moved from California to Texas; I wanted to incorporate acoustic piano and Hammond B3 on some of the tunes, which Ron didn’t have in his studio; and I started working with Mark and wanted his guitar on some songs.
Umm…yeah…it’s a challenge to make things sound “live” under those circumstances. Still, I think everyone did a great job keeping a musical dialogue going without it sounding contrived. To me it sounds like a great band playing together in a good room. That was the goal.
What do you use in your studio?
I’m pretty much a minimalist when it comes to software and gear. It’s easy to get sidetracked with toys!
Software: I use Cakewalk SONAR for recording audio and MIDI, Band in a Box
as a composition and preproduction aid (e.g., helping me create some of my scratch tracks), and Finale
for scoring. I have a few assorted soft-synths – Garritan Personal Orchestra and SFZ Sample Player come to mind. Most of my non-stock plugins are from Voxengo.
Recording Hardware: custom-built Carillon rackmount audio PC, Aardvark Q10 audio interface/mic preamp combo, Beyer M160 ribbon mic
Rode NT1A studio condenser microphone, Shure SM57 cardioid dynamic microphone
.
Synths/Controllers: Kurzweil K-2500s, Kurzweil 2500R (awesome wind-synth module!), Korg M1, Yamaha WX5 wind controller, Roland JV-880, Roland JV-1080, Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) MIDI Express XT interface.
What do format do you record in and why?
I generally record for myself at 44.1 KHz/24-bit because that’s what gives me the best balance between audio quality and efficiency when I’m working on my own projects. I have a super-quiet computer, but it’s not high-powered by today’s standards. So, I can’t run 24 to 32 tracks (typical track count for my own songs) at 96 KHz without severely increasing latency or spending a lot of time bouncing tracks. Nevertheless, I will do sessions for other folks in pretty much any format they want because I’m typically only tracking to a stereo mix.
When you collaborate via the Internet do you use a service like soundcloud.com, dropbox or the tried and true email method?
I use yousendit.com and sendthisfile.com.
Do you have any particular way you like to mic your saxophone?
I use a Beyer M160 ribbon mic
Saxophone
Not being sax players, can you explain to us the varieties of saxophones available today? What did you use on the album?
The most popular saxophones are the soprano, alto, tenor, and baritone. The soprano and tenor saxophones are both Bb instruments, with the soprano playing an octave above the tenor. The alto and baritone are both Eb instruments, with the alto playing an octave above the baritone. However, saxophones have been made in a number of different sizes and shapes. I’ve played almost everything from a sopranino to a bass saxophone; curved soprano and straight soprano; curved alto and straight alto – even a “C melody” saxophone that plays in the key of C and is pitched between the alto and tenor.
What does it mean that a sax is pitched in Bb or Eb, does that mean all music must be in that key?
The fingerings are the same on all the saxophones. I play a “C” on an alto the same way I do on a tenor, baritone, or whatever. However, the pitch that sounds is different between the saxes, and the key that the saxophone is pitched in is all relative to “concert pitch”. For example, if I play a “C” on an Eb alto sax, it will be the same pitch as an “Eb” on a piano; and if I play a “C” on a Bb tenor sax, it will be the same pitch as a “Bb” on a piano. That means the music has to be transposed (or shifted higher or lower) so that the musician plays what the composer intended.
It all sounds terribly confusing, but there is a logical reason for it. It keeps fingerings relatively standardized amongst the wind instruments. If the fingerings weren’t standardized, I’d have to learn a new set of fingerings for every saxophone.
Is it easy to switch from one sax to another?
The fingerings are the same, but it does take some practice to become proficient on a different saxophone. They do feel and respond differently.
Does the material the reed is made out of change the tone significantly?
The traditional reed is made from cane. However, now they make plastic-coated cane reeds, and reeds made entirely out of synthetic materials. Yes, they do sound different. The coated and synthetic reeds typically last longer and sound “brighter”. For classical music, it’s my opinion that there still isn’t a good substitute for cane. I do sometimes use coated and synthetic reeds for jazz and rock, especially if I’m playing outdoors where cane reeds can dry out.
Never the Same
The album is a really nice collection of songs. They really show your versatility as a musician. I particularly like how you go from “Smooth Jazz” stuff, with “Never the Same” to more traditional trio style Jazz on “Upside Down” and “Espressivo” it really shows your appreciation and mastery of the genre.
Thanks! I really appreciate that!
You had mentioned that the A section of “Outside In” is based on a twelve tone row, what does that mean? Tell us more about that, what inspired you to write that.
Twelve tone composition was intended to be a means of ensuring that all 12 notes of the chromatic scale are sounded as often as one another in a piece of music while preventing the emphasis of any particular one. All 12 notes are thus given more or less equal importance, and the music avoids being in a key. To most people’s ear, the result is dissonant.
I took a bit of liberty with the concept, and roughly ordered the 12 notes such that the strong beats of the measure would emphasize the notes in an F7 chord. So, it sounds a bit “outside” (i.e., not in the written key), but it’s not really that outside. It’s Outside In! It’s a play on words, and I wrote it from the title. In other words, the title came to mind, and I asked myself, “What would ‘Outside In’ sound like?”
How did you find the guys you worked with on the album?
Somehow, I found Ron Wikso’s web page. He had the credentials as a drummer, and I asked him if he could get a bassist and a guitarist. He proposed Alphonso Johnson on bass, Kurt Griffey on guitar, Wally Minko on keys, and Michito Sanchez on percussion. Well, I had a half dozen or so albums with Alphonso Johnson, so I figured Ron was capable of contracting the work! I gave him a few songs, and I absolutely loved what he and the rest of the guys did with them. Since then, I’ve met Ron, Wally, and Kurt in person.
What are you working on right now?
I am putting together some online video saxophone lessons, which I am excited about. These will be free, and will start with lessons on tone production. I’ve also been transcribing the saxophone solos from my album, Never The Same. These will be available for instruments in the keys of Eb, Bb, and C, and will also be free.
I now have “minus one” mixes of my entire album. For each tune, I have a mix without bass, one without drums, one without guitar, and one without keyboards. I think these are going to be really cool for teachers and students. These are backing tracks you can use to practice along with. You could also annoy your neighbors by hosting an instrumental karaoke night! (I considered getting them out myself when a certain neighbor’s roosters started crowing at 2:30 a.m.) As a compliment to the backing tracks, I have just finished writing out charts for all the tunes, and these are now available for Eb, Bb, and C instruments. Check ‘em out on my education page.
Do you have any shows planned?
I do have stuff on the calendar at my website. I also have plans for some performances that are a bit “outside the box”. I’d love to say more, but I’d better not!
What would you like to do in the future? Any dream projects?
I recently posted an mp3 on my blog, which was just a recording of me practicing a jazz standard along to a backing track. I posted the clip on a whim. However, I got so many positive comments on it that I think I’d like to do an album of jazz standards.
Finally, you mentioned that you play in your church’s worship band on the weekend. Tell us more about that. Any worship projects in your future?
Yes, I play keys and wind synth at my church. We have a very talented group of like-minded musicians, and we enjoy playing for a purpose bigger than ourselves.
As for worship projects, I may do something in a jazz or smooth jazz style; however, I’d like to do it in a way that’s fresh. Remember the band, Koinonia, with Abraham Laboriel, Alex Acuna and Justo Almario? That was cool. It was sincere, creative, skillful worship – without the cliché. I remember them playing the Baked Potato when I was in LA.
On another level, though, I believe everything I do is worship. In that sense, you just heard it!
You can keep up with Charley at his website, CharleyLanger.com as well as on Twitter, and Facebook.